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What better deterrent than to know your DNA is held on a database? Commit a crime and you'll be found. If you don't commit crime, you have nothing to worry about. Simple. The do-gooders at Liberty always seem to take the sides of the criminals who terrorise the rest of us. Don't break the law in the first place and your DNA won't be taken. Although I empathise with the mother, her son was clearly there and was lawfully arrested. Take some responsibility!

I don't see any problem with this. I think everyone's DNA should be on file.

The bigger problem is if you are totally innocent the Police will take your photograph , fingerprints and DNA, you automatically have a criminal records number this means you now have a criminal record . Yes even you are a good citizen and arrested to achieve figures on a matter that could be dealt with on your doorstep. So don't try and go on holiday to the USA for as far as they are concerned if you have a criminal records number then you are a criminal and will need to apply for a Visa. Unless of course you are a Labour party member arrested for a fraud investigation, then the Police forget to take them or say they are not always required. What a democracy we live in today

What a society we live in. No longer do we have the presumption of innocence until found guilty, now you can have you DNA taken even for being arrested - no matter if you are later proven to be innocent. What the goverment can not get openly, they take by stealth.

Then again, if you had a young daughter who had been raped, you would think DNA records a great idea if it helped to catch the perpetrator. As I see it, the innocent have nothing to fear.

Dear oh dear - how ill informed some people are. How exactly, does having your DNA on a database mean you have a criminal record? It's the best tool we have in the box to bring evil people like Dixie and Wright to justice. Look at it the other way - if you were a victim of crime, the DNA database might be the only thing that catches and convicts your assaillant/murderer/ etc.

I advocate that DNA Samples are taken from every newborn. The rest of society could be sampled by a range of initiatives such as making provision of a DNA sample a condition of accessing the NHS and the Welfare State benefits system. Non intimate DNA samples (for example a cheek cell swab), are easy to administer so there is no reason why a national database of all citizens couldn't be obtained within a couple of years.

Problem with this if police match your DNA to a crime they assume you are guilty and look for a scenario to match you to a crime. DNA is not just contained in bodily fluids in a recent case it took an age for the CPS to drop a case where the accused's DNA was found on the victim the suspect was a tall black man and the DNA came from a 5' 4" white man. The DNA a single hair. There could have been any number of innocent reasons how it got there. You can not trust the Police with this information.

trev and apr you can offer yourself upto the plod to have a sample taken at any time let us know next week if you do it please

Where exactly has the right to privacy gone? The government want to keep all of our lives on record and it seems they are starting with children who are less likely to complain about their civil liberties being infringed in this most invasive way. Some may say that that good people should have nothing to fear, but once information like this is on a database it is extremely unlikely to ever be removed and if the reduction in civil liberties of the last eight year continue at the pace they have been moving we are only a few decades from living in a police state in which personal freedom and privacy are controlled by an all powerful government which monitors every aspect of our lives. When he was in power Tony Blair said that the right time to intervene to prevent crime is before birth so how long can it be before DNA is used to profile who is genetically more inclined to become a criminal and babies are branded criminals before they are even conceived based on analysis of their parents DNA? That is not to even mention incompetence; the last year has seen extremely personal information relating to junior doctors, parents on the Child Support register and military personnel either accidentally published or lost in the public domain. Our right to live as private citizens is inalienable and actions like this erode them piece by piece unless we take action to stop them now I truly fear for the future. Remember that liberty is not taken from people; it is normally given away gladly. We must not let a government - and their boot boys: the police - invade every aspect of our lives without complaint.

Scott Secret is talking c**p. DNA is the greatest weapon the police have in catching criminals so lets make as much use of it as possible. I see no reason why every single one of us should not be on the national DNA database. Its got nothing to do with peoples liberty and freedom - if you think that you're clearly siding with (or are already part of) the criminal fraternity of this country.

It's a great idea until those details go astray or get sold onto a life insurance company and suddenly you can't get your health insurance because you are in an "at risk" group. Or perhaps it is subtler than that and the Government decides it can save some of your hard-earned money by using that dna profile to establish if you have a genetic predisposition towards a certain illness and therefore should pay for your own treatment and not have it on the NHS...? Of course they won't do that. It will only be used for crime, anyway, won't it? How naive are people? It's never about what a well-meaning government will do now - however useful it will be in catching criminals. It's about what they might do down the line to screw innocent folk over - or "when the situation changes".

The only people who need fear a national DNA data base are criminals.

[bold]Several years ago Essex Police asked serving police officers to give their DNA to the (then new) database. How many did ?...... have a guess[/bold]

This is Orwellian. Just shows how far the British public have allowed themselves to be mo nitored by the government. Not only are we the most watched society on the planet, we seem to want to be genetically monitored as well. I guess when Jews were required to register in Germany no one thought they had any reason to think the government would miss use that information. Of course, millions of people had to die before it was over.

[quote][bold]chill out[/bold] wrote: This is Orwellian. Just shows how far the British public have allowed themselves to be mo nitored by the government. Not only are we the most watched society on the planet, we seem to want to be genetically monitored as well. I guess when Jews were required to register in Germany no one thought they had any reason to think the government would miss use that information. Of course, millions of people had to die before it was over.[/quote] Quite right. This creeping withdrawal of our freedoms is terrifying - and worse, most people don't seem to care. The argument that the innocent have nothing to fear is a strong one, but not valid in my opinion. Yes, DNA has proved useful in catching two high profile criminals recently, but even our own Government has decided that compulsory registration is a step too far. Mind you I expect that to change in due course, perhaps next time there's a terrorist atrocity we may see yet more freedoms disappear.

If I don't believe that the government have the right to examine my life at a genetic level then I am siding with criminals. The only people who fear a DNA database are criminals. What about the legitimate fears I have of the government becoming more draconian and our complancency today providing them with all the tools and information they need to restrict our liberty to such an extent that we are no longer free in the future. A DNA database may seem like a trivial thing to worry about but it is the thin end of the wedge and once they have taken this from us they will start pushing away at the next thing. If they had their way we would all be microchipped so we could be tracked by GP at all times and our mood monitored - surely the only people who would have anything to fear from that are criminals as well, except I don't want to live in a country where I am scared what the government want to take from me next. If they aren't stopped now who knows where thsi will lead. As Thomas Jefferson said: "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

loss of liberty and freedom almost every aspect of your day recorded or watched on cctv and all for the greater good soon we will have something akin to the patriot act in the states liberty arnt particularly do-gooders and nore do i belong to them but the erosion of freedoms in this country needs to be looked at very soon it is OPPRESSIVE

Like the Jefferson quote, Scott. Bang on.

http://www.guardian. co.uk/commentisfree/ 2007/nov/15/comment. politics

[bold]"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" I hear that with depressing regularity these days. Successive governments have done a fine job in dumbing down the once British public into what amounts to 'British sheeple'. People who live their lives in fear every day and will agree to ever more totalitarian methods to guarantee their 'safety'. Here's another quote: "Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin.[/bold]

[bold]Ten myths about the police National DNA Database[/bold] [bold]February 2008 Background[/bold] In England and Wales, the police now take DNA samples routinely without consent from anyone aged ten or above who is arrested in connection with any recordable offence. Recordable offences include being drunk and disorderly, taking part in an illegal demonstration and minor acts of criminal damage by children, caused by kicking footballs or throwing snowballs. A false accusation is sufficient to be arrested on suspicion of committing an offence. All DNA samples are kept permanently by the companies that analyse them, and the computerised DNA profiles and personal data (such as name and ethnic group) are also kept permanently on the National DNA Database, even if a person is never charged or is acquitted. In Scotland, DNA may be taken on arrest for any imprisonable offence and computerised DNA profiles and samples are kept permanently if the individual is convicted. However, the Scottish Parliament voted against permanent retention of DNA from innocent people, in May 2006. Instead, police powers were expanded to allow temporary retention (for up to 5 years) from a much smaller number of people who had been charged but acquitted of a serious violent or sexual offence. In Northern Ireland, the law is the same as in England and Wales, but it has not yet been fully implemented. [bold]Myth 1. Keeping more people’s records on the DNA database will make it more effective[/bold] The value of entering increasing numbers of DNA profiles from individuals on the Database (unrelated to the reason for arrest) is that it may allow investigation of a past crime to be re-opened, by unexpectedly identifying a new suspect. The purpose of retaining an individual’s DNA profile on a database is to treat them as a suspect for any future crime. Keeping DNA profiles from convicted criminals has been shown to be effective, as has collecting more DNA from crime scenes. But keeping DNA profiles from unconvicted people on the Database has not helped to solve more crimes: the proportion of recorded crimes detected using DNA has not increased in the last 5 years, despite 2 million more people’s records being kept. The Government has provided evidence of DNA matches with unconvicted persons, but matches are not the same as prosecutions or convictions – many matches occur with victims or passers-by or are false matches. The number of false matches will increase as the Database gets bigger. [bold]Myth 2. Keeping the records of unconvicted people on the DNA database makes us all safer[/bold] If people are a danger to society, it makes sense to keep their DNA profiles on the Database. But vulnerable people may be put at risk by being on the Database, because an individual’s computerised DNA profile can be used to trace their movements or identify relatives. If a person’s DNA sample is also accessed, other personal information about their health may also be obtained. If criminals can infiltrate the system they may be able to use it to identify people whose identity is protected, including vulnerable women or children, or people in witness protection schemes. The permanent retention of records of arrest, linked to DNA, also means 2 there is significant potential for individuals to suffer erosions of their rights. Potential abuses could include: refusal of visas or access to visa waiver schemes (such as that operated by the US); refusal of employment; and excessive Government or police surveillance (of individuals or selected groups of people). [bold]Myth 3. Removing the records of unconvicted people would allow murders and rapists to walk free[/bold] Adopting a policy of removal of records in line with Scotland’s would make no difference to cases such as the Ipswich and Sally-Ann Bowman murders. The chance of a crime scene DNA profile matching an individual’s profile on the DNA Database is higher in Scotland than in England and Wales, even though most people have their records removed from the Database on acquittal in Scotland. Keeping records of vulnerable women and children on the Database does not make them safer, because of the danger of misuse. [bold]Myth 4. Individuals with records on the Database will only be identified if they have committed a serious crime[/bold] Most people whose names are sent from the Database to the police in ‘match reports’ are not subsequently convicted of any crime: for example, they may have been at the crime scene earlier in the day, or the match may be a false one. In addition, all Police National Computer records are now kept permanently, linked to the National DNA Database. Information contained in these records may be used to refuse someone a visa or a job, even if they have never been convicted of a crime. The retention of permanent records of arrest is unprecedented in British history. [bold]Myth 5. Information will only be shared with other countries if it is needed to investigate a serious offence[/bold] There is now a presumption in favour of data-sharing across the European Union for the purposes of crime prevention and detection. However, other European countries only keep DNA profiles of convicted criminals permanently on their databases, whereas the Database in England and Wales contains DNA profiles from around a million unconvicted people, about 100,000 of whom are under 18. Although the police in other countries will not be given direct access to the DNA database, a plan is being developed to allow them to submit crime scene DNA profiles and to receive reports on matches with individuals’ profiles on the Database. A worst case scenario is that someone who infiltrates the law enforcement system of another country could use this system to track down a potential victim, by submitting a DNA profile obtained from, say, the toothbrush of a child, rather than a crime scene. Other governments – for example, the US - may also seek records of arrest, or the DNA profiles of named individuals. [bold]Myth 6. DNA evidence is foolproof[/bold] DNA evidence is not foolproof: false matches can occur by chance, especially if the DNA profile from the crime scene is not complete. The National DNA Database Annual Report 2005/06 states that between May 2001 and April 2006, 50,434 matches with crime scene profiles, or 27.6% of the total number of match reports, involved a list of potential suspects, not a single suspect, being given to the police, because matches with multiple records on the Database were made. The increasing use of Low Copy Number (LCN) DNA analysis – which allows a DNA profile to be extracted from a single cell – has led the Director of the Forensic Institute in Edinburgh to warn that innocent people may be wrongly 3 identified as suspects as a consequence of being on the Database. For example, a single cell of DNA can be transferred from someone who had never been at a crime scene, simply because they had earlier shaken hands with the perpetrator. The LCN technique was strongly criticised by the judge in the Omagh bombing trial. [bold]Myth 7. Keeping individuals’ DNA profiles on the Database helps to exonerate innocent people who have been falsely accused of committing crimes[/bold] A DNA database is not required to provide evidence of guilt or innocence when there is a known group of suspects for a specific crime: a computerised DNA profile can be obtained from each individual and compared directly with a crime scene DNA profile. A database of individual DNA profiles is therefore unnecessary to exonerate an innocent person – their DNA profile can be taken directly from them, rather than looked up on a database. The ‘added value’ of putting individuals on a database is only to introduce new suspects into an investigation. [bold]Myth 8. The Database can only be used to identify an individual, not for other purposes[/bold] The Database may be used for any “purposes related to the prevention or detection of crime”. Uses now include: familial searching (using partial DNA matches to try to identify the relatives of a suspect); searching by name; and undertaking various types of genetic research (including controversial attempts to predict ethnic appearance from DNA). Undertaking genetic research using the Database or samples is a breach of the usual ethical requirements for consent to such research. [bold]Myth 9: Putting everybody on the Database would be fairer and would help to solve more crimes[/bold] To put everyone on the database would require DNA to be taken from all British residents and visitors, by force if necessary, sent to laboratories and analysed, and put on the computer database, linked with each person’s name and address. This would be an enormous and expensive distraction from solving crimes, as well as increasing the likelihood of errors and misuse. If everyone in the world was on a DNA Database this would lead to more crimes, not less, because of the danger of misuse by governments and infiltration by organised criminals, who could use it to track victims and political opponents. [bold]Myth 10. People’s DNA profiles, samples and personal details can only be accessed by a small number of people[/bold] Copies of the personal information collected by the police when someone is arrested – such as name and ethnic appearance – are sent with people’s DNA samples to the commercial laboratories which analyse and store the samples, rather than directly to the central DNA Database. Records of arrest – although not the DNA profiles themselves - are also kept on the Police National Computer (PNC). A wide range of agencies, including potential employers, can access information from the PNC.

[bold]The 10 Myths about the National DNA Database was written by Dr Helen Wallace she works for a non profit organization called Gene Watch UK if you would like to learn more about the National DNA Database and join the campaign to have innocent people's DNA removed from it please go to www.genewatch.org[/bold]

Unbelievable what a load of tosh how people can write columns that long and think everyone has such a boring life beggars belief! I believe everyone should have a tatoo on their forhead with a 'barcode' under it!!

[quote][bold]APR[/bold] wrote: I don't see any problem with this. I think everyone's DNA should be on file.[/quote] I couldn't agree more, those who don't agree must have a guilty conscience.

I DIDNT KNOW ESSEX POLICE KEEP INNOCENT PEOPLES DNA,FINGERPRINTS AND MUGSHOTS ON A DATABASE.IN TOMORROWS ECHO I EXPECT TO SEE PICTURES OF ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO SAY ITS OK, QUEUING UP AT ESSEX POLICE STATIONS TO GIVE THIERS.THOUGHT NOT MUPPETS.THIS IS AN ABUSE OF POWER.WHEN CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED THATS CHILD ABUSE.

It seems the country is split as usual! I personally don't have any problem with their being a record of our DNA. If it helps them to solve crimes then surely that is a good thing! And as for people asking us 'muppets' to go queue up at our local police station - I think not - I have a job to go to and I'd rather not waste police time! If they want my DNA all they have to do is ask nicely!

Essentially I have no problem with a DNA database. However my concerns lay with the inept Government and their handling of such information. Let us now assume that have a successful national DNA database free from any government scandal (unlikley I know). Once a 'criminal' has been apprehended, much thanks to the DNA database, what chance an appropriate sentence handed out by the courts? Fact: a database of DNA would be an effective tool to help fight crime but that is of little use when the core fundementals of our judicial system are ineffective.

[quote][bold]schraube[/bold] wrote: Unbelievable what a load of tosh how people can write columns that long and think everyone has such a boring life beggars belief! I believe everyone should have a tatoo on their forhead with a 'barcode' under it!! [/quote] I don't know you so I can't tell if that second para is a joke or not. Presumably you're aware that tattooing has been used before to trace, mark and classify people. Ask any Holocaust survivor.

[quote][bold]piano hinges[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]schraube[/bold] wrote: Unbelievable what a load of tosh how people can write columns that long and think everyone has such a boring life beggars belief! I believe everyone should have a tatoo on their forhead with a 'barcode' under it!! [/quote] I don't know you so I can't tell if that second para is a joke or not. Presumably you're aware that tattooing has been used before to trace, mark and classify people. Ask any Holocaust survivor.[/quote] Take no notice of evilc, he does say some odd things...

That PC in your picture took my DNA made my gums bleed nice chap, a year,yes a year, later i was informed there was no case to answer do not attend court a case of wrong place wrong time had nothing what so ever to do with me never been arrested for anything in my life. Whats to stop the police from finding a match of my DNA at a future crime scene? of course they would not do that would they!! you people do make me laugh at times.

[quote][bold]smee[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]APR[/bold] wrote: I don't see any problem with this. I think everyone's DNA should be on file.[/quote] I couldn't agree more, those who don't agree must have a guilty conscience.[/quote] These two responses say it all. Obviously, those contributors above who have done a bit of research and made positive responses must all be idiots then. And those of us who are highly sceptical of anything this government says or does are so obviously "guilty" then, as condemned by these two individuals I quote above? This government knows far too much about INNOCENT people in this country, whilst its own members carry on in the most abhorrent fashion, with their dodgy dealings with Muslim businessmen; cash for votes scams, tweaking laws to suit themselves and selling off our country to all and sundry. I wouldn't trust this government with a cupfull of discarded custard from my bin, let alone with my DNA. Grow up!

If you have nothing to hide, there should be no problem in having your DNA profile on a confidential database.

It is interesting to note that nobody has challenged the [bold]10 Myths about the Police National DNA Database[/bold] I posted on 5th March.

The database solved it – it certainly did not stop the Metropolitan Police from wrongfully arresting me for the murder of Sally Bowman and detaining me for 36 hours, smashing my house up etc. I was on the database despite being convicted of no offence. Anyone who wants to see what Detective Chief Superintendent Stuart Cundy done to me and my family you can check this out http://gizmonaut.net /blog/uk/dna_retenti on_of_unconvicted_pe ople.html Absolute proof my DNA already on the database: http://gizmonaut.net /images/kr_dna.jpg

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